SPEAKER_00 0:00

Men. Welcome to the most important podcast that you'll hear in a long time. It's the Men's Leadership Community Podcast, and it starts now.

SPEAKER_06 0:16

We're making our way, we're making our way downtown through our 12 best practices.

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Wow, you just threw out, yeah, we went from Yacht Rock to uh 90s chick rock there or whatever, 2000s. There you go, making our way downtown.

SPEAKER_06 0:30

A little Nelly for Tato for the There you go.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Good job. Yeah, wow. You're really you're really that's great. We're on emotional health and wellness, and hobby you're in touch with your feminine side this morning. So thank you for thank you for scratching the surface of that. I know I can already see in Jeff McNeely's face that he's excited about the fact that men can get in touch with their feminine side on a Friday morning call. Amen.

SPEAKER_06 0:52

Here's a little here's a little roadmap of kind of where we are.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

We've come a long way from they live. Last week was very manly, very macho, you know. And then this week we got Vanessa Tato, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:06

Well, I think yeah, it was a Vanessa Carlton, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Yeah, it was a Vanessa Carlton. There you go. Wow, you're throwing out all the names.

SPEAKER_06 1:12

Wow. You know, guys, I kind of I seem to know a little bit of my music or two. Um anyway. Well, we've been kind of going over really our my favorite part of that, which is whole life wellness, but we're focusing on the mental, uh, the emotional, and uh we're really this is near and dear to me because I believe um that is in in the times that I've that I've been doing this this past six years, I've talked to a lot of men, and one of the things that always comes a common denominator in all of this is that the mental health part of it is always the most neglected and the least talked about. So we start talking about being open, honest, and vulnerable with men. You all I can almost guarantee you that somebody's gonna cringe as soon as I say that.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Well, yeah, and then we touched on the we'll we'll talk about that. We touched on the mental, the intellectual health and wellness last week, and today we're touching on the emotional. And I you you immediately get into these kind of slogans, well, men aren't supposed to be emotional, or don't let your emotions control you or run your life. And all of a sudden, we we what we might interpret that to mean is if you're feeling emotional, just shove that down as far as you can, you know, shove it way down there. Don't let anybody know about how you're feeling or what you're going through. And that's what it means to be manly, and that's just not true. It's not true according to scripture, it's not true according to the way that God created us, and it's definitely not true when it comes to what it means to be in the brotherhood of Jesus Christ and actually share our lives with one another, Obi.

SPEAKER_06 2:45

Yeah, and that's what we do here. We talk about whole life wellness that Jesus didn't just uh capture. He doesn't only care about the physical part of it, he cares about the the mental. We don't compartmentalize those aspects of our of our lives.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

And so and I think a lot of people get you know get shocked when they hear that Jesus as a human being, remember, he is the God man, he's all God and all man, he is incarnate, born as a baby, grows as a man. He's a human being. Now listen to that word again, human being, which means he he had emotions, he has emotions today. And you're all of a sudden like, oh, wait a minute, you're talking about radical redemption. Jesus is my savior, he's the true son of God. Oh, he has emotions and understands what I'm going through. Oh, maybe that might be a helpful conversation, uh, instead of this kind of uh, you know, far off and away savior that is disconnected from you in your thoughts and your feelings. He's actually up close, personal, and intimate and knows how you feel. And we're gonna dig into that today and what a beautiful blessing that is.

SPEAKER_06 3:53

Amen. Couple of key questions here for you. Um, in regards to mental health and wellness, that we kind of wanted you to start thinking about, start pondering. Um, you know, how is your thinking? What does the Bible say about my thinking? And how will we define intellectual health and wellness?

SPEAKER_03 4:11

And then again, kind of how we got to that last week, Obi, is is how's your thinking? Guess what the main question today is going to be with emotions? Well, how's your feeling? So get into that. But this is how we kicked it off with some of these, like uh uh you know, really foundational understandings of defining mental health and wellness, Obi.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 4:32

Uh, a state of well-being in which the individual realizes their own abilities, can cope with the normal stresses of life, can work productively and fruitfully, and is able to interact with and make contribution to his or her community.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

By the way, how how well is everybody doing today with coping with the normal stresses of life? Well, they're struggling on a Friday morning with the normal stresses of life, and yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:58

Oh, yeah. This includes our psychological, intellectual, emotional, and social well-being. It affects how we think, um, how we feel, act. It also helps determine how we make stress, real how we handle stress, relate to others, and make choices.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Kind of some big things about life if you're married, parenting, have a job and work in in an environment with other people.

SPEAKER_06 5:23

Yep. Um, it involves, but it's not limited to one, emotional well-being. That's managing your feelings, coping with daily stress, experiencing positive moods, two, psychological functioning. That's thinking clearly, making sound decisions and recognizing personal potential. Uh, three, social connection that's building healthy relationships, interacting with others and contributing to a community.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

You know, and that that last one, Obi, is so huge, not only for the MLC, but just talking about mental and emotional health and wellness, you know, with other men is it is to be done in community. And I think that's another aspect of the lie of the lone wolf uh, you know, syndrome in the United States of America is if you are struggling mentally or emotionally, you're supposed to struggle on your own. Don't tell anyone about it. Again, shove it down deep. Don't let anybody know. Uh, man up and work your way through it. And that is an absolute lie. Our mental and emotional health and wellness is to be carried out, interacting with others in community with one another. And we only heal, Obi, when we're struggling with mental and emotional health and wellness issues like you have, like I have, okay, like our families have. You only healing only comes in working that out in community with others. Yeah. And why wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_06 6:46

Right?

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Yeah. So we're gonna see. We'll get into a couple of reasons why we wouldn't, and uh why the devil doesn't want us to to interact in community, why the devil doesn't want us to find health and community with others, why the devil wants us isolated and on our own, right? Obi, I mean, the devil loves an unhealthy man. Just remember that. That's been one of our main uh you know things that we've dropped throughout this entire series, Obi. The devil loves an unhealthy man.

SPEAKER_06 7:13

Yep. All right, so let's make some of you squirm, yeah, feel uncomfortable. Let's do it. Touchy feet, touchy feely time. Touchy feely time. Everybody gather around, hug each other, and sing kumbaya. Oh, look, Nick said, uh, I feel like the biggest issue with that is that when we do express our feelings and emotions, we are shunned. And that's the problem with society today. Nick, I'm glad you mentioned that because we're gonna talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Yeah, thanks, Nick. You're looking forward to us actually talking with one another and saying society doesn't get to shame us from talking about what we're actually feeling and experiencing and going through in our lives. So this is a really big one, guys. Nick, you're hitting it right on the point. Men getting together on a Friday morning and talking about this one another with one another is actually telling society you don't get to shun us for actually having this conversation this morning.

SPEAKER_06 8:04

Amen. All right, so here's a couple of questions, key questions for you guys. Um, how is your feeling? What does the Bible say about my feelings and emotions?

SPEAKER_03 8:17

You know, because we're gonna get into one at some, we're gonna get into uh false stigmas of the world, Obi. Nick, you're gonna love this. Hopefully, other guys will too, but we're also getting into false narratives of the church. And a lot of times the church is like, hey man, you walk in these doors, you talk about Jesus. We don't need to be talking about your feelings and emotions, and that's a lie. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_06 8:38

And last, how will we define emotional health and wellness? Uh, and for those that can't see, just want to remind you that, you know, uh this diagram that we have where we were talking about um our physical, spiritual, vocational, relational, emotional, all of these things surround Jesus at the center. So we're always going to be talking about this, but uh it does not work without Christ at the center.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

No, and Acts 17, 28 says, in him we live, move, and have our being. Right? So we're talking about our being in Christ, he's at the center of all of it. And Obi, I I think this is so simple and basic, but to remind everybody that God created us as emotional beings. And when we say live, move, and have your being in Christ, your emotional being is is a part of being in Christ and how he created us.

SPEAKER_06 9:34

Yeah, emotional beings. God created us with emotions to feel and experience this life. Psalm 33:15 says, He who forms the hearts of all considers everything that they do.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

And that's a really big verse from Psalm 33, and and throughout the the entire Old Testament in Hebrew, the Hebrew word for heart is lave, your lave, uh, which it has such a huge meaning, other than just we we say, Oh, how's your heart? Well, in Hebrew, the heart was the center of the human being, it was the center of your personhood, it was the center in which God wanted to live and move and be a part of you and dwell. The Holy Spirit wants to dwell in the center of who you are. And it's from that center then, Obi, that our emotions and our feelings are supposed to flow outward. Right? That's the way they were created. So he who forms the very center of the human person, the hearts of all, considers everything they do, including how we feel. And I want you guys to know this morning, Obi, this is huge. God cares about how you're feeling. God cares about what you're feeling. You know, the I guess the phrase today is God wants you to feel your feels, right? Is that what they say to the kids today, Obi? Feel your feels. But he also then wants to help you understand what are unhealthy feelings and what are healthy feelings, and how to be able to understand those and grow in more and more healthy feeling.

SPEAKER_06 11:02

Amen. Well, let's get into some defining moments. Got a couple of definitions for you on emotional health and wellness. It's one aspect of our overall mental health, specifically.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Remember, our feelings and our thinking are related to one another intimately, guys. You can't compartmentalize this stuff, Obi. And yet that's you know, that falls in line with what Nick just said. That our our society wants us to compartmentalize these things and then hide the ones that they want to shun us for and allow us to show the ones that they say is okay. But all of these things are intimately connected. And in the last last week and this week, Obi, our thinking and our feeling are intimately connected with one another.

SPEAKER_06 11:42

Amen. So it's one aspect of our all overall mental health, specifically regarding our ability to cope with both positive and negative emotions, which include both don't just have one or the other guys.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

We have positive and negative emotions. We have healthy and unhealthy.

SPEAKER_06 11:59

Yeah. Which includes our awareness, understanding, and acceptance of our emotions and the impact they have on us and others in real time.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

Oh, wait, all of a sudden, how's your feeling? Isn't just about me, it's about the impact that my feelings have on others, OB.

SPEAKER_05 12:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Our wives might be excited that we're talking about that. Our children might be excited that we're talking about that today. That we've got men on a call on a Friday morning recognizing that our emotions impact the people around us. Okay. All right.

SPEAKER_06 12:32

It is identifying, processing, and expressing emotions in healthy ways. Okay. Um, it is positive emotional, positive emotional well-being is when people manage emotions well and have a sense of meaning, purpose, and supportive relationships.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

You know, so when we're talking about men's emotional health and wellness, uh, we oftentimes run into unhealthy issues with our emotional state, Obi, when we have a loss of meaning and purpose or supportive relationships in our lives. And I don't know that we, I don't know that we highlight that enough with one another, with how is your feeling? How's your feeling going right now? How are your emotions? Is intimately connected to do you have meaning and purpose in your life right now? And a lot of guys, especially when we change stages in life, like I am right now, beginning to enter the stage of empty nesting, all of a sudden, where your meaning and purpose has been for 18 plus years starts to shift and change when you drop your kid off at college and you drive home and they're not in their room anymore. And you're you, you know, you have these struggles like I'm going through right now, Obi, where all of a sudden you're like, oh, what is my meaning and purpose? I mean, I'm still gonna be his dad. I still am going to be there for him, but life's changing. And I don't think we understand that enough that we are constantly going through stages and changes in life where our meaning and purpose is all of a sudden, whether we like it or not, brought up into question. And guess what? When that happens, our emotions are going to be uh not necessarily unhealthy, but off-kilter, and we're not gonna understand fully what we're experiencing until we share it with other people. I like JB, you know, has has obviously gone through that, you know, amen to that. You know, these are when stages of life change and when our meaning and purpose is challenged or is changing, we're gonna go through some emotional changes, Obi.

SPEAKER_06 14:29

Yeah, so it's it's so important to be able to have the skills that can help us uh navigate and create positive emotional health and wellness.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

So who am I? How am I known? What what what is the meaning in my life if now all of a sudden, you know, something that I've been known for and people have understood about me for 18 years is changing.

SPEAKER_06 14:53

So some of those skills can be identifying, processing, and expressing emotions in healthy ways, which by the way, we just did identify it, process it, and then share it, express that emotion with another brother.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

So, Obi, thank you for letting me do that. Because we actually just did number one right now. I'm going through this, I've identified it, I'm processing it, but you've given me the opportunity, Obi, to share it with you.

SPEAKER_06 15:19

And I hope so, right? This is what this is what this is for. Um, knowing how to deal with uncertainty, stress, and change.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

I found out that screaming, you know, at Jen or throwing things across the room is not the way to deal with this change in season.

SPEAKER_06 15:38

It's not being able to work through disagreements.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

Yeah. Boy, have we lost our way on that. Did you know? Hey, here's a big one, Obi, in our world today and the divisiveness we have on now people being forced into Nick, once again, our society, forcing us into camps and extreme camps, that I either fit in this one or I fit in that one. And whatever camp I'm in, if you're in the opposite one, I immediately hate you, and there's nothing we have left to talk about. Did you know that that is emotionally unhealthy and unwell? That we can't even disagree with one another anymore in healthy ways.

SPEAKER_06 16:17

Yeah. And as much as I love technology, you know, social media there has designed algorithms to be able to create that uh rage, that anger that fuels that engagement.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Rage baiting, right? Now we got rage baiting, gaslighting, all these things which are actually looking for an uneducated emotional response. That's what it's trying to get. Not a thinking emotional response, not a healthy emotional response, right? But an uneducated, unhealthy emotional response. That's what the world is after right now with rage baiting and gaslighting.

SPEAKER_06 16:58

Yes. Um looking for solutions to problems in useful ways. Again, that eliminates that that ties back to being able to work through disagreements, right? You can no longer sit down and and find solutions to problems in useful ways.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Dave. Sorry, that's what they hated about Charlie Kirk so much was he could calmly talk to them and reason with them, and they didn't like it. It always turned into them screaming at him, and he'll be and they hate it when you calmly talk about an issue. And that's why I like other some conservatives that I listen to, that they have the people on the left all the time, or just people they don't agree with on time to have a conversation. And if you can have a civil conversation with somebody, it's amazing what you can accomplish versus just screaming back and forth that you know whatever it may be that you don't disagree with. So I'm glad to hear this today because this is very it's huge in society today that you know you you learn to have a civil conversation.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

Well, almost every almost every issue that is on the television right now or on your radio in your car or whatever, Obi seems to be two different extreme cats that can't they hate each other and they can't actually sit down and talk with one another. Whatever the issue.

unknown 18:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:21

Yep, I agree with that. And here's a big one: asking others for help and support.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yeah, this is a big one. Real men ask for help. Uh this is again one of the main things that Obi and I talk about over and over again with the lie of the lone wolf syndrome in the United States of America is you should not need any help. You should not ask for help. Nick, we're gonna get shamed for needing help or asking for help. We're gonna get shunned, and that is a complete lie. Real men ask for help.

SPEAKER_04 18:49

You know, there's I gotta interject something. Jesus asked for help. You know, when he got tempted, you know, here's the devil who comes at him at his physically weakest point, at his emotionally weakest point. And Jesus didn't deny his feelings or his emotions. He was hungry, he was hurting, he felt lonely, and the devil attacked him first, trying logic on him. That didn't work, and then he appealed to his emotions. And every time the devil came at him, Jesus asked for help from his father by quoting what what scripture said, by invoking his divine calling to rebuke the devil. If he can do that, he calls us to do it too.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Yeah, no, and we're gonna talk about uh great again, Dave, leading us into we're gonna talk in just a minute about we have an emotional savior. Uh, Jesus had emotions, he experienced emotions. Scripture tells us he did, and the beauty of that. So uh, but but you know, and again, Nick, your comment in the the chat is just right on. But what you're feeling doesn't really matter. You know, unfortunately in the church, it'll be one of the false narratives in the church. You have false stigmas of the world, we're gonna talk about those, but you have false narratives in the church, and for some reason the church says, Well, what you're feeling doesn't matter, just believe the right things. Well, now all of a sudden we've separated our our intellectual health and wellness from our emotional health and wellness, which scripture says is intimately connected. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:17

Yeah, or as Jeff Prezler said, or we are not in the right community space, and we suddenly feel we need to apologize for how us expressing our feelings has hurt someone else's feelings.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

So well, yeah, you know, and this is again the shame side. We're gonna get to that in just a second. Shame, shame seems to be a huge and rampant when it comes to men's mental and emotional health and wellness. And there's a pretty good reason for that, Obi.

SPEAKER_06 20:42

Well, you know, it started about three chapters in, yeah, into the Bible.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

So what is the big problem with men's emotional health and wellness? Well, it's broken, gentlemen. Our emotional health and wellness is broken, according to Genesis chapter three. I love that, Obi. Three chapters in, here's the brokenness. And some of you that are looking at the screen right now, and for those of you that are listening, you're probably saying, Why is this screen upside down? I can't read it properly. Well, because our emotions are upside down ever since the fall, Obi. Because of three key things: shame, fear, off. Yes, our I love that's our favorite favorite German word, anfechtung, is the experience of a feeling of doom, right? So we have shame, fear, and doom. Well, we would just call that what today? Anxiety, right? Uh normalized anxiety. Think of this. What came with the fall to our emotional health and wellness? Well, guess what? Normalized anxiety began in Genesis chapter three. We think it started in the 21st century, right? No, it started in Genesis chapter three. But three things, when you take a look at the scripture, Obi, in Genesis chapter three, that happened at the fall shame, fear, and normalized. Anxiety or or feeling of doom uh that happened with this, you know, brokenness at Genesis chapter three. And we can see that in the verses pretty clearly. When you when guys listen to this, you're gonna hear shame, fear, and anfectong, the feeling of doom.

SPEAKER_06 22:18

Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked, so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Shame.

SPEAKER_06 22:26

Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees in the garden. Fear. But the Lord called the man, Where are you? He answered, I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Both fear and shame lead to the feeling of anxiety and stress. Yeah. Go ahead. This is so huge, guys. What was once the best part of their day every day was walking with God in the cool of the evening, now has become the source of their anxiety and their doom. Do we stop OB and recognize the upside-downness of their emotional state through sin?

unknown 23:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:15

I don't think we do, you know. So think about that, gentlemen. What was once supposed to be the best part of our day in walking with God in the cool of the evening is now the very thing that we fear happening. Well, God's going to show up and see what I did. God's going to show up and know that this was wrong. God's going to show up and call me to account. But all of that came through Genesis chapter 3, Obi. And Jesus recognizes that. And one of the things that we want you guys to know is the reality of our fallen emotional state today, as it's grown from then, is then again, our emotions are upside down. We have emotional confusion. We're confused in how we're supposed to feel over things, Obi. And we want to talk about that out loud with one another, that we struggle with that. Jesus saw it. This is from Matthew 11, 16 through 19. And a lot of us will read through this and go, oh, he was, you know, he was talking to them. And this is a really hard verse to understand. Well, you know what he was talking to them about, Obi? You're emotionally confused about how you're supposed to feel and respond to certain things. So listen to this closely, guys. This is pretty, pretty good.

SPEAKER_06 24:24

To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Wow, is that not happening today? Children sitting in marketplaces calling out to one another with our emotional confusion for you to come join me in my unhealthiness.

SPEAKER_06 24:41

Okay. We played the pipe for you and you did not dance. We sang a dirge and you did not mourn. For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He has a demon. The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, Here is a glut and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

And what Jesus is saying when he says, We played the pipe for you and you didn't dance, is Jesus saying, We brought you joy from the kingdom of heaven and you got mad. We sang a dirge, we we revealed your brokenness and your sinfulness to you, right? That you should have dropped on your knees and confessed and asked for forgiveness, but instead of mourning, you got angry. Like everything's upside down when it comes to our emotional health and wellness because of the sin and the brokenness within us. And Jesus is trying to help us recognize that. He sees it, he knows it.

SPEAKER_06 25:38

Yeah. Well, Nick, I'm glad you mentioned that earlier as we uh read your first comment about um what it what it meant, the the big problem with with expressing our feelings. Yeah. We're gonna kind of talk about some false stigmas uh of the world in regarding our emotional health.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yeah, there's three big ones, Obi.

SPEAKER_06 26:00

Yeah. We got shame, incompetence, unstable. So shame, mention, talk about their struggles with emotional health and wellness. You should keep it to yourself.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

There's the sh there's the first part of shunning.

SPEAKER_06 26:13

Yeah. Incompetence. If you are a man who struggles with emotional health issues, you must be weak.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

A flat out lie.

SPEAKER_06 26:22

Unstable. If you are a man who struggles with emotional health issues, you must be dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

But these are the way that the world comes at us to try and keep us from actually working on our emotional health and wellness, Obi, with one another and to isolate us off on our own, just the way that the devil wants. Well, you should keep it to yourself. Oh, you must be weak, or oh, that guy might, I've heard him say he's struggling, he must be dangerous.

SPEAKER_06 26:53

Well, if that weren't bad enough, the probably one of the most heartbreaking things, um, it's really the false narratives of the church regarding our emotional health.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

You know, because the place where we should be safe, sometimes unknowingly, unintentionally, we get or the place we should be called to grow healthy.

SPEAKER_06 27:15

Yeah. Right? Yeah. So look at these. If you have Jesus, you should not be struggling with emotional health issues.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

That's a lie. Yeah, I love that. If you've got Jesus, why do you have problems?

SPEAKER_06 27:26

Oh, this is a really, really big one. Uh, God promises never to give you more than you can handle.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

That's a misread piece of scripture. God promises never to give us anything more than He can handle. Second Opinions 317.

SPEAKER_06 27:42

Uh if you are struggling with emotional health issues, you must not have enough faith.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

Oh, yeah, your faith's not strong enough if you have bad feelings. Oh, that's a lie.

SPEAKER_06 27:55

Your feelings and emotions should have nothing to do with your faith and worship.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Yeah, I know. It should just be intellectual assent. This is all about knowing the right things, not about feeling the right things, or not about expressing. You know, we confess our sin intellectually, Obi. Oh, I know that this is a sin. I know that what I'm doing here is a sin, but please don't tell me about confessing your emotional brokenness.

SPEAKER_06 28:20

Oof. Andy, I've I've shared with y'all before. If you don't know me, you um you'll know that um I struggle with panic and a phobia of heights. And of course, the Lord saw to it that I depend on him by working in a high rise, 42nd floor, 40th floor. Uh, and the amount of times where I've had somebody tell me, uh, a fellow believer has told me, Hey, did you know that the reason why you have anxiety is because you're anxious. And if you just stop being anxious and trust in the Lord, you won't be anxious anymore.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

Which, by the way, what they were saying, underlying that statement was you know, if you just had stronger faith, you wouldn't struggle with this, Obi. Which, how helpful is that in a moment when a man is struggling through emotional issues to tell him, well, your faith just isn't strong enough. So if you had stronger faith, you wouldn't be feeling this. And you're like, that's part of why I feel this way right now. They can smell your fear. Don't be don't be scared, they can smell your fear. Instead of encouraging one another, that this is actually normal for broken, sinful human beings to struggle with our emotions.

SPEAKER_06 29:31

Yeah, which, you know, they have a they have an impact, right? So let's talk about some of the the impact of these false stigmas. Um, they come out of a place of ignorance and fear, or both, uh, they can create unhealthy effects. They're limited to, but not exclusively, negative beliefs about oneself.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

You know, and this is a big one is when you don't share how you're doing with somebody else, especially when it comes to your mental and emotional health and wellness and what we're talking about today. And if you stay isolated and alone, then you're going to begin to believe the voice inside your head that tells you all the negative things about you. Okay. We call that negative self-talk, especially when it comes to emotional health and wellness. And, you know, uh, God created the gospel in such a way that we're supposed to hear it from others, speaking that goodness to us and that good news to us through our ears. That's why we're supposed to be in community and talk about our emotional health and wellness issues, Obi, with one another, so that I can share with you the negative beliefs that I have about myself, and that you can speak God's goodness and truth into me when I'm struggling. That's the gospel.

SPEAKER_06 30:45

Amen. Um, what about social isolation, low self-esteem, hopelessness, shame, uh, avoiding therapy and treatment, worsening symptoms?

SPEAKER_03 30:58

You know, and Nick, Nick hit on this with his comment earlier. When the world wants to shun us for how actually talking about our emotional health and wellness issues, then what the world really wants is wants us to avoid therapy and treatment. It wants us to avoid getting better, and the world wants our symptoms to get worse. So everything that we're talking about today, and sharing this with one another as men are on a Friday morning, Obi, is so that we won't avoid the therapy and treatment and that our symptoms won't get worse, but that we'll actually grow in our health and wellness. And that's why we constantly talk about Dr. Peter Call, right? Who is our, you know, MLC resident therapist counselor. And the MLC guy offers three free visits with him up front. So we're not just talking about this, Obi. We're not just promoting it. We're advocating for men to be in therapy and treatment on a regular basis. And I'm in counseling regularly. I advocate for that for other men. I advocate it for my wife. I advocate it for my kid, right? Because these are things that help us grow in our emotional and mental health and wellness. Not to avoid it, but God has given us people that are trained in this to help us.

SPEAKER_06 32:16

Oh, amen. Amen. And I'm a huge advocate of that, Andy. Uh, and and that's one of the things that I love about what we do here. We don't just talk about it. We're actually willing to say, hey guys, we will cover the for your first three therapy sessions from Dr. Peter Call, who is such an awesome person who understands and loves the Lord and really is able to tie those things together. Very knowledgeable. So, man, if you haven't, if you've been on the fence about it, um, if you, you know, there's something in there weighing you down that that you need to talk about it and you've been putting it off, you know, take this opportunity. Uh take this opportunity. This is working.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Me or Obi will get you connected with Dr. Peter Call. Uh, we'll get you in to see him right away. I visit with him, Obi visit with visits with him. We've referred many other men to him, and they I've never heard a negative thing, Obi, from anybody that's ever met with Dr. Call about that meeting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:17

Andy. Okay. So it's kind of ironic last night. I I had been seeing some of the vid videos of of the Sopranos, the show they had was on for a long time, very popular show. And so I was talking with Jenny last night, and I said, hey, let's let's watch this, you know, see this again, you know, because I really don't remember a lot of it. But what was connected today about it was uh very first uh season episodes one through whatever, he's he has a panic attack. He's got these ducks there living in his pool, and he's became very so enthralled with the fact that they they he the the duck mom laid eggs and hatched some ducklings, and he was you know kind of really becoming connected to them, and they left all of a sudden, you know. He doesn't know why, he doesn't know what he did, if he did anything, but he has this huge panic attack, which leads to a heart attack, and then he's now he's going, Oh gosh, you know, but then it cuts scenes through to him going to a psychiatrist, and and uh here's this you know, top boss gangster having to try and find his feelings, and they show him going down to all the way to the point where she says, What do you miss the ducks? and he starts crying. And it just kind of hit me as like you know, it's not that you could be this big boss of something, there's always emotions and and some sort of anxiety going on in all of us, yeah. And it kind of was hitting right along lines today.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Well, and what's shocking about that is you see uh a big mafia boss that doesn't know how to express the experience of loss that he's feeling, which probably had nothing to do with the ducks, exactly ultimately, so but ultimately is a huge loss that he's experiencing that he doesn't know how to express or feel. Very mild, yeah. But that's all of us, Gunner. Thank you. I mean, that's that's what it is like for men when we don't get together and and we don't find these healthy outlets to be able to say, I'm experiencing and feeling this right now. I don't necessarily know why, but it's in the conversation with somebody else, Gunner, that helps us actually figure out oh, it wasn't the ducks.

SPEAKER_05 35:42

It wasn't the ducks, it was yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:45

That was a that was a sick reference there, Gunner. Yeah, coming in clutch. That was a good one. Yeah, yeah. So talking about the impact of these false stigmas, you know, of hopelessness, shame, avoiding therapy, worsening symptoms, you know, these things actually um they can work to prevent people from getting help, fitting in society, being accepted as part of the community at large. And here's the here's here's the big one leading joyful and fulfilling lives.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

You know, and Obi, that's the big one for us. We don't want men that are just surviving, we want men living lives that are thriving in Christ. Uh, and that's a big one if if we are are going to fall under the false stigmas and the false narratives of the church and not get the help, then we're we're just gonna be surviving.

SPEAKER_06 36:33

So let's look in contrast, uh, Andy, of our the truth in Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

Yeah, right. This is pretty good stuff here, guys. This and now we're gonna hear some gospel stuff right here, guys. This is the good news for men, and every one of us on this call at some time or another, or maybe even this morning, deal with mental and emotional health and wellness issues, Obi. And here's the gospel for you. Here's the good news for you about when you're going through these times.

SPEAKER_06 37:02

Yeah, and here's a and here's a little something for you guys. Uh, this is not something that I ever heard growing up in church. So, uh, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Um, God intention intimately cares about your emotional health and wellness.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Yeah, just know that. I mean, God cares about how you're feeling today. And the church is the worst one, I think. At times that'll be like you just said, I never heard this growing up in church. God doesn't care about your feelings, he only cares about your salvation. Well, your salvation is the restoration and redemption of your feelings. I mean, that's a part of it. We're gonna get to that, but God intimately cares about your emotional health and wellness.

SPEAKER_06 37:42

Yeah, intimately, which means we do. Yep. That means that Jesus came to redeem and renew our emotional state.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 37:51

Which leads us to God calling us to talk about our emotions with Him and with a brotherhood, yeah, and community, right? In community, and so that culminates to who we are as uh an organization, it's a nonprofit organization in ministry. As the MLC, we provide you know a safe and brave place for men to share in an open, honest, and vulnerable way with other men in a trusting environment.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

Yeah, not one that's gonna shun you, not one that's gonna shame you, not one that's gonna make fun of you, but one that's gonna encourage you and speak God's gospel love into you through Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_06 38:28

Yeah. Psalm 139, 23, 24 says, Search me, O God, and know my heart. Test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there's if there's any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

What beautiful. Here, here's a beautiful scriptural truth right here. Search me, O God, and know my heart, which he does. And then we're asking him, test me and know my anxious thoughts, wherever my anxiety is, that I can't find it, but I know I'm feeling it. Reveal it to me, and then transform me and lead me in the way everlasting, which is help me to deal with my anxiety through your son Jesus Christ, through the gospel, with other brothers. That's leading in the way of everlasting is the way of redemption of my emotional state, Obi.

SPEAKER_06 39:18

Yeah. Our emotions are essential to connecting us in meaningful relationships with God, with one another, and with ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 39:26

How good does it go for those of you that are married? How good does it go for you with your spouse to not be emotional with her? How good does that go? You know, just treat her like the dentist. Let's get through this and get this over with. You know, try that on her. How good does that go for you that are parents with your children? For those of you that are at work, think about this for just a minute. To not understand how your emotions affect others, and you're in a position of leadership, and yet you are working specifically and only on a transactional basis with those who work for you, expecting a return on investment by telling them what to do, and them doing it, and there's no emotional connection to those that you work with whatsoever. That is going to run into some problems at some point at work.

SPEAKER_06 40:14

And more than likely, probably a toxic environment, which I know some people, even in within our community here at DMLC, are a part of, and you know what how taxing that is. Right. Matthew 22, 37, 40 says, uh, Jesus replied, Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

Now, Obi, I think is especially as men, the first thing that we do with this set of verses is we go, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do. And actually, what we're supposed to see in this is, oh, this is who I'm supposed to be. And this is about being, not doing. And it's the being begins with love and the intimate connection and our whole life, health, and wellness with God and with one another. How we're supposed to be with God and how we're supposed to be with one another. Very different.

SPEAKER_06 41:14

Yeah, yeah. That means we have an emotional savior, Andy. Yes, because Jesus experienced the full range of human emotions. I think that's what's we tend to forget about that part that Jesus was angry, that Jesus was sad, that Jesus felt scared. He was scared, yeah, felt alone.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Yeah, all of these emotions. He didn't want to die. I mean, you know, you're like, Oh, you can't say that. That's why he came. Yes, that's why he came. He came to die on the cross for our sins, but as a human being, he didn't want that. No, he prayed his father even to take it away if possible. Now, the interesting thing about all this, Obi, is we have an emotional savior who's experienced the full range of human emotions and knows everything about us in every way. Yet when he went through them, he went through them healthy and without sin. So now all of a sudden, what we have here is we have Jesus who felt the full range of human emotions in healthy ways. Which means when he heard dance music, he danced. When he heard dirges, he mourned. Right? So he had emotional decorum that was appropriate to the moment in healthy ways. And this is amazing. Then when we think about radical redemption in Jesus Christ, and that he didn't just come to give me hope for the end of all time when he returns or I die, but he's actually come to give me hope for today, Obi, with my emotional uh health and wellness, is that he is bringing health to those feelings right now. So we see this from him, especially in the Garden of Gethsemane.

SPEAKER_06 42:56

Yeah. Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, Sit here while I go over there to pray. And he took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. Wait, what?

SPEAKER_03 43:10

But Jesus, he's the savior, he's gonna make everything all right. But he began to be what? Sorrowful and troubled. Because what he was experiencing was wrong.

unknown 43:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:22

Then he said to them, My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. He felt, I mean, he was so overwhelmed with sorrow that he just, I mean, like he might he felt like he might collapse from sorrow.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Anxiety, doom, all these feelings that he felt, but they were appropriate to the moment.

SPEAKER_06 43:44

I would say, yeah, stay here and keep watch with me. Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, My Father, if it is possible, may this cut be taken from me, yet not as I will. But as you will.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

And here is here's the beauty of him going through all these emotions, yet without sin. He felt all of these emotions that were appropriate and healthy and right to the moment. And as a human being, he did not want to die. Because what human being Obi wants to die? It's just not a normal feeling for us. So he feels everything in a human way. And yet he turns to his father in the midst of those feelings and says, But not as I will, but as you will, knowing that his father is with him through all of it.

unknown 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

So he doesn't handle it on his own. He turns to his father in heaven. He cries out for help and shows us what to do in a healthy way when our emotions are overwhelming.

SPEAKER_06 44:47

Yeah, and hopefully that'll give you, you know, I'm sure a lot of us have read over this, over Hebrews 15, 16 many times. But with that understanding, it really does transform the way you actually read this. Um, therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weakness, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he did not sin. Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

Just like he did. You know, so I, you know, we we see Jesus turn to the Father and cry out for help. And now that is the very person that's alive inside of us through the power of the Holy Spirit is you have Christ in you. In him we live, move, and have our being, which means even when I'm feeling and going through an emotional stress, anxiety, and sorrow, Christ is with us, calling on us to cry out to his to our Father in heaven. Yeah. Through the Holy Spirit, through Scripture, with the Brotherhood, but not on our own. Because when we're left on our own to go through this on our own, we're gonna go through it sinfully.

SPEAKER_06 46:06

Yep. We call that emotional redemption, Andy. Yeah, Jesus came to redeem and restore our emotional health and wellness. And how cool is this? Um, John 14, 27. Shalom I leave with you. And we're not just talking about peace. You've read this where it says peace, but it's peace uh as in whole life wellness, not just the aspect of peace. My shalom I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled, and do not be afraid.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Which immediately attaches when we we don't think say this out loud enough. So shalom, peace, whole life wellness. We're like, okay, he wants us to be spiritually well, right? We'll compartmentalize that in church and say, okay, Jesus is giving us his spiritual health and wellness. But then it goes to say, don't let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. That's our emotional health and wellness. It's connected intimately and a part of it. So not only is he giving us spiritual health and wellness, not only is he redeeming physical health and wellness, but he is also giving to us mental and emotional health and wellness through him. You're gonna have trouble in this world, but take heart, I've overcome the world. So now he's given us a hope where we can turn when we're experiencing those emotions of gloom and doom, right? The anxiety that's been normalized in our world today. And we turn to one who has felt it, experienced it, and overcome it through victory on the cross and the empty tomb.

SPEAKER_06 47:40

Gives it a new, a new meaning, right? Yeah. Philippians 4 7 says, and the shalom of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Once again, a scripture reference specifically aiming at our mental and emotional health and wellness and redemption in Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_06 48:01

Yeah, it doesn't separate the heart the heart and the mind. Correct.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

Uh big stuff. Big stuff.

SPEAKER_06 48:08

Yeah. John 15, 9 through 17 says, As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's command and remain in his love. I've told you this so that my joy may be in you, and that you may joy, and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, to lay down one life for one's life for one's friend. You are my friends if you do what I command.

SPEAKER_03 48:40

Go ahead and finish it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:42

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I have learned from my father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit. Fruit that will last. And so that whatever you ask in the name in my name, the Father will give you. This is my command. Love each other.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

And this is what it means for men to get together and talk about our emotional health and wellness on a Friday morning is to love one another in Christ. And that's what we're after.

SPEAKER_06 49:17

Yeah. So let's talk about the purpose of the hero's journey. Um, openly, honestly and vulnerably, sharing the reality of our successes and failures with one another, so that together we might continue to grow in Christ-like emotional maturity maturity as God's men.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Yep. And if we're just too manly still to want to be able to uh share that openly, honestly, and vulnerably with one another, then you know, let's go ahead and take a look at uh the way that this will become more practical in our lives with one another if we'll do it. It's not just it, yeah, I think we forget at times, Obi, that God's word is very practical for today and not just this escape plan for the future. But when we talk about this with one another, we might actually be able to have healthier feelings in the moment and have that emotional decorum like Christ did, that when we hear dance music, we dance, and that we when he when we hear dirge music, we confess and mourn. So that we'll have emotional decorum in our lives with our spouses, with our children, in our workplaces, at our churches. And I this is a really big one for me. Men that have emotional decorum who know how to act in the moment, who know how to feel in the moment, who know how to behave in the moment.

SPEAKER_06 50:37

Yeah. Um, Ecclesiastes 3:4. You've heard this one. There is a time for everything and a season for every activity under the heavens, a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.

SPEAKER_03 51:23

You know, and this is a really big one. Look at all the things that are involved, everything under the sun, in the way that we will, you know, experience and have emotions about things, but the way that we can do them with emotional decorum in Christ and acting appropriately or feeling appropriately to different situations as they come up. You know, and of course, this is the great footloose verse, you know, from Ren, you know, when he shows the scripture to the pastor at the city council that there is a time to dance. So I think that's important for us to remember as men. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 51:56

Well, you know, what better way to end this than are one of uh one of the keystone figures and my heroes, childtime heroes that really taught us work really hard to teach us through the power of the gospel how to be those kind of people, right? Other than Mr. Rogers. Mr. Rogers. He said, when we talk about our feelings, they become less overwhelming, less upsetting, and less scary. The people we trust with that important talk can help us know that we are not alone.

SPEAKER_03 52:29

You know where he got that from, by the way? Scripture.

SPEAKER_06 52:33

Yeah, he was a minister, and man, was he a wonderful person. He's probably one of the few people where you can go online and not find anybody say something awful or terrible about him. Which is great, right? Actually, talk the talk. Well, thank you guys for joining us. Man, we hope that you've enjoyed this. Feel free to share this with somebody. Feel free to go back and listen to it, take notes, take it to heart, and really allow God's work to transform you and really to stir you into if you have been struggling and doing things alone, to press into the community that the Lord has given you here at the uh Yeah, and you you guys can reach out to Obi and myself at any time uh for a one-on-one session or to get Dr.

SPEAKER_03 53:19

Call's information so we can connect you with him for sure.

SPEAKER_06 53:23

Lord, we thank you for uh being good to us. We thank you that you understand us, you empathize with us, you know what it's like to be angry, to be sad, to be scared. Um, we ask you that, man, you allow us to um really hand those walls over to you so that you can tear them down if they've been there. Sometimes we, due to trauma or whatever else, we've built up these barriers to kind of keep everybody away. And we ask you that you tear those down, that you allow us to be open, honest, and vulnerable so that we may grow, so that we may understand uh the intimate side that you have for us, that we may understand what it is like to walk in confession and humility and affection to one another. And I pray that um as we read these words, that you allow the gospel of Jesus Christ revealed through us in your word through the Holy Spirit to change us and allow us to be men of action. We love you. It's in the name of your son, Jesus, that we ask all of these things.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Amen. Thanks for joining and listening. We hope that you were truly blessed. Now you can join the live call every Friday morning at 7 a.m. Central Standard Time, and please bring a friend. And to learn more about the MLC, visit our website at the MLC.life. That's the MLC. Have a great day.