SPEAKER_00 0:00

Men. Welcome to the most important podcast that you'll hear in a long time. It's the Men's Leadership Community Podcast, and it starts now.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Well, we are almost at the end of our journey, you guys. 12 best practices. What a ride it's been. Uh uh, there's a lot of information. I know there's a lot of content. Um, and we didn't want to gloss over things. And I'm really glad that Andy and I are not sticklers about making sure we're going through every slide. I know it's our desire to, but sometimes really the Holy Spirit takes over. The conversations stir something within us, and we gotta follow it and really do what we are called to do, and that is uh provide a place where we can't talk about things, where we can um discuss some of those things. And last week was something that everybody kind of chimed in on.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Yeah, vocational health and wellness and and all the different vocations that God calls us to in our daily lives, not just our professional career, but all the vocations we fulfill. And that leads perfectly into this week to wrap up the whole wellness uh aspect of the 12 best practices OBR, vocational wellness then actually goes directly into our relational wellness and all the different relationships that we have in our lives that begin in our homes but then move our way out into the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

And you know, Andy, us other than emotional, the emotional wellness, this is something, the second thing that uh from reading and from researching that men struggle with. And so this is why it was really important. This one was uh really especially important to me. I'm gonna read you a little tidbit off of Colossians 3, 12, 14. It says, Therefore, as God chosen people, holy and dearly love, clothe yourself with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience, bear each other and forgive one another. If anyone has a grievance against someone, forgive as the Lord forgave you, and overall these virtues put on love, which binds all of them together in perfect unity.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

And I love, you know, this is one of the greatest passages that describes what biblical relational health and wellness is to look like. Is first of all, do you know that you're God's chosen people holy and dearly loved? Because if you don't know that, if you don't know that you've been chosen and you don't know that you're dearly loved, it's impossible then to go choose and love others. You know, it all begins with God's love for us and God's choosing of us, but then he pours that into our hearts so that that can be his love that is expressed through us now to the people that we come into contact with every day in our lives.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

Oh, yeah. And check out what David White, he's a poet, um, uh, what he says about this um the dynamic of friendship is almost always underestimated as a constant force in human life. A diminishing circle of friends is the first terrible diagnostic of a life in deep trouble.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Man, I can't overestimate or over discuss that line right there. A diminishing circle of friends is the first terrible diagnostic of a life that's in deep trouble. Ask your wife or ask somebody who's closest to you in your life do you do you think that I have a good circle of friends? Do you think I have a good circle of confidants? Do you think I have a good community that I can go to and talk about what's going on in my life and get honest feedback from somebody that cares about you on whether they think you have a true circle of friends or a diminishing circle of friends? And the reason why I bring that up, Obi, is the whole reason the MLC started is I looked at my wife and she goes, You have no friends.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

You have no circle of friendship, and I can tell that you're struggling. I can tell that your life is in deep trouble. You have to do something about that, Andy. And that was what spurred on the whole starting of the MLC and reaching out to five guys and say, Look, I'm on my own. I recognize I'm not having relationships with other men, and my wife can see that I'm struggling. But that, you know, that as the as the the cool kids say, that's bringing them in a dump truck if you're ready to learn that about yourself. Do I have friends or not? And if you don't, we want to be open and honest and vulnerable and say, your life might be in deep trouble if you don't have a good circle of friends or confidants, especially men, that you can go to and share this stuff with, Obi.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Oh yeah. Well, it continues as saying it's a terrible diagnostic of a life in deep trouble of overwork, of too much emphasis on a professional identity, of forgetting who will be there when our armored personalities run into the inevitable, natural disasters and vulnerabilities found in even the most average existence.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Like the opportunity to get on a Friday morning and talk about the pain inside your head that nobody else can possibly understand. But I need a group of guys that I can share that with, right, Gunner? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a big deal. And that's just the vulnerabilities that Gunner faces in everyday existence, just average everyday life.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

But to be able to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Something that you you struggle with in your in the divid daily development of how I live with it is what do I say, what do I not say, why do I say it? Why don't I say it? You know, battles of of uh, you know, and then learning it all on my own as to like what it is that's how it's affects my personality, how it affects my moods, my uh, you know, and then with that being how does it affect my friendships? And you know, how is it pushing me away to where I am lonely or I am out by myself? And it's it's uh it's great to have a group like this, like you were saying, Andy, it was to be able to, you know, start off from someone saying you don't really have any friends to you know taking the the prideful step and asking for help and friendship. And you know, this was this that's what this has continued to be.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Yeah. You know, or just Obi, another great example, one-on-one. Yesterday, Dave and Hart and I, uh, two guys that have known each other through our sons growing up through baseball and playing high school ball together, who are now in their freshman year of college and experiencing what it means for our two dads that your sons are now gone. And that that's a significant change in life. That, you know, it's important to talk to your spouse about that and your wife and and to be able to understand what we're feeling together as, you know, for Jen and I empty nesters or for Dave and his wife, for their third child to be out of the house now and down to their fourth child being a freshman of high school. Uh, but your your your wife can't handle all of that conversation, and your wife can't handle all of what it feels like to be a man whose son has now left the house. You have to have another man that you can grind that against.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Yeah. The Hebrews 10, 19 to 25 talks about our really our community that that we have. Therefore, dear brothers, since we have confidence to enter the most holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and by a new and living way open for us through the curtain that is his body. And since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with a full assurance that faith brings heaven, our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience, and heaven our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful, and let us consider how we may spur one another on towards love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the day approaching.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

I love this set of verses, though, because it moves from what God has done on our behalf to the faith that that actually creates in a brand new life with us, and the way that that immediately immediately sends us into a community of brotherhood that we didn't have before we received this faith in all that God has done for us in Jesus Christ. But the minute that you have this faith in Jesus and what he's done for you, it immediately connects you with a community and a brotherhood of others that you're supposed to continue meeting with and spurring one another on.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Amen. Which leads to our big question. How are your relationships at home, at work, and in the world?

SPEAKER_01 8:40

We've been asking, how's your feeling? How's your thinking? How's your vocations? But how are how are how are your relationships? How are you relating to and with others? Have you stopped and thought about that for a minute? How am I relating and how am I being related to?

SPEAKER_03 8:56

And what does the Bible say about our relationships at home or at work or in the world? Um, and how will we define relational health and wellness? Keeping in mind, you know, that all of these aspects are spiritual, our physical, our intellectual, emotional, all of these um Jesus within being Jesus is at the center.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Yeah. You know, it doesn't actually culminating in our relational health and wellness, the way they're integrated to one another.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

Yeah. So let's define relational health, men's relation and help in particular. It's a developed state of health and well-being through relational connectedness, in which a person has both the opportunity and capacity to so this is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Opportunity and capacity. This is similar to our our why. Did you see that, Obi? Both our opportunity to grow, but then our capacity to care about someone else. Yep. So you have both sides of it, are the opportunity and the capacity.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Yep, to develop, maintain, receive, and perceive safe, stable, and nurturing relationships with other individuals, specifically other men.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

And how often do we think about that? Okay, here we are on a call on a Friday morning, a bunch of dudes, right? But how how often have we stopped when we say, How's your relationships? How are you relating? Have you stopped and thought about how am I developing, maintaining, receiving, and perceiving safe relationships with other men, stable relationships with other men, nurturing relationships with other men? Uh, because oftentimes, you know, what we see in our world today is competitive and comparative versus safe, stable, nurturing. Uh, and these are important words for men, not only to understand the need that each of us have individually, but also what we want to grow amongst one another. And it's okay, you know, I understand, you know, sitting around the campfire and the ribbing that goes on and, you know, a little bit of that that we do with one another as men, but in our daily lives, the need for safe, stable, and nurturing relationships, not just with our wives, not just with our children, but with other men.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

Yeah. Um, and again, we're talking about the opportunity and capacity to also participate in a broad range of social relationships, um, including active engagement in a variety of social activities and social support, which is why we do what we do with our open mic, our happy hour, to learn the importance of reciprocity, namely that relationships are about both giving and receiving. They're about participating and being actively engaged in doing life with others.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

You know, one of the things that I think men say, I oh, I don't, I don't feel like doing that. Oh, I don't want to do that. And everything begins with I. Uh, and when every statement out of my mouth, which I've been brought to task, understanding that there have been moments in my life where a lot of my statements begin with I, I, I, I, I. There is no reciprocity. I'm simply telling other people what I'm going to do. And the way that that comes off to your spouse, your children, or to others is I matter, you don't. Reciprocity is the understanding and awareness that we matter together, which is a very it's a deeper way of going when you're asking how are your relationships going and moving from I to we and to us.

SPEAKER_04 12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Well, and not only that, you know, the there's a perpetuity about this, you know, to being actively engaged. The this is intentionality. This is something that doesn't stop. You know, we don't just do something, it's a lifelong thing that continues, hopefully, growing until the Lord kills you or he comes back.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Well, you know, it's practice for for that next eternal life, you know, that new earth that we're gonna live in with one another, uh, face to face with Christ, where we have perfect vocations that we enjoy and that we're fulfilling on behalf of one another. I mean, this is the way that we're going to live eternally in community with one another, and we have the opportunity to intentionally practice that now in a world that doesn't want to see it.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

That is correct. So, some key benefits, uh, feelings of inclusion, belonging, satisfaction, security, uh, support during times of need. Wow, accountability for personal growth, um, opportunities to grow in confidence and becoming more comfortable with who you are in front of others, increased communication skills, increased aptitude for conflict management.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

You know, it's interesting that God would create that naturally the more we're in community with one another, the better leaders we become. Isn't that interesting how God created that? So when you're isolated and on your own, I don't think people hear this enough. You're not going to grow in becoming a great leader because that's not how God created it to work. But when we're in community with one another, we're going to grow in our leadership abilities also. And that's a huge aspect of the MLC obeys. We want guys that are on the hero's journey with one another, not only grow in their commitment, their intentionality to community with one another, but to the understanding that the benefit of that is we actually grow as leaders with one another. And then we're sent out to the different places God has us going, better leaders for those places that don't know that, and that we can instill that in those places.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

Well, and I'm glad you talked about the purpose of the MLC because that is our main purpose rides along this right here. And it's to establish, maintain, and grow our community relationships by doing life together through get this a cultural of Christ, a cultural of Christ-centered disciple making, sharing loving communication with one another that is open, honest, and vulnerable, uh, and joyful and generous hospitality and giving service.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah, we try and put, we try and create opportunities. Fridays, the happy hours, the retreat, whatever it may be to actually put this stuff into practice with one another. Yeah, all Christ at the center, all living under the authority of Scripture, right? We'll talk about that a little bit more in a minute. Uh, that we are, you know, they they conservative, liberal, whatever. We are a conservative theological group of men that live under the authority of God's word. That's just the truth. This is not a group of men that are picking up God's word and saying, what do we think of this? Or what are we going to tell God we're up to? But it's a group of men that are living under the authority of God's word, being formed and normed by it to become more and more like Christ on the journey with one another.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Well, you know, and Andy, and um, community, we keep hearing that word over and over again. It's not a suggestion. You know, I don't know if you guys are new. It's a reality. Uh, but we were created by community for community. That's the reality um of our need for community. And this can be found all the way back to Genesis.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Um, and I love that phrase by community for community. This is what we mean by living under the the authority of scripture. If you believe in God, who is three in one and one and three, a trinity, the mystery of the trinity, father, son, and holy spirit, God in himself is community. And if he is our creator, why in the world would we expect him to create us in a different way than he is himself? Right? Very well God is if God is existing in community, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three and one, and he creates us in his image and likeness, then don't you think inside of that is immediately that we were created to be in community with one another, also?

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Well, Andy, um, I know you didn't just pull that out of your hat. Um, this goes back to scripture again at out of Genesis. This is right from the beginning, right? You open your Bible, first page, well, not first page, but you know, first page in Genesis, hopefully. Um, it says, Then God said, Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So God created mankind in his own image. The in the image of God, he created them, male and female, he created them.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Now we have some when we talk about living under the authority of scripture in the world that we're in today, and the culture and the society that we're dealing with in the 21st century, there's some significant stuff that's going on in just these two verses, Obi. Number one, have you noticed that everything is plural? Let us, our, they, them, right? So everything is about God being community and plural in Himself, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that he makes us that we are to live that way also. But I do also want to be very straightforward, especially when we get into a how are your relationships going in your marriage, how are your relationships going at home. There is a standard in which God has created reality. And at the bottom it says, and he created them male and female, he created them.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Careful, Andy.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

So we we want to be very honest of who we are. Yeah, very open and honest about what who we are and how we function, is that God has created community work in a beautiful way. First and foremost, that he created them male and female, that they would complement one another in their differences, serving one another in the different ways that he created male and female in order that we might be a better and whole community with one another. So we're gonna start with some of that stuff right there when we get into then where, you know, how do you recognize or find whole life health and wellness in your sexual relationships? Well, scripture begins it right here that God created male and female, he created husband and wife, and that that sexual wholeness and wellness is supposed to happen within that relationship.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

And be.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

And I will be the first one on the call to admit I lived outside the beauty and the boundaries of God's intentions and the way that He created a healthy and sexual life to be. And I found nothing but pain uh that that that chased after me for a lot of years, Obi, that was not healthy and well. Oh, yeah, you yeah. What I can say though, now is after being married for 22 years, and that that beauty and that wholeness of that sexual relationship being found in the community of male and female inside marriage is completely different and beautiful and well and wholesome. So I've I've experienced living outside of God's creation and the way that he designed it to be. And I've now experienced living inside of it and what that means. And I just want to be open and honest and vulnerable about that, that they are different and the expectations are different and the repercussions are different. So we want to be honest with men. If you're struggling in your life right now, because you're actually living outside of the boundaries of the way that God first created relationships of community to happen in the very first chapter of Genesis. Come and talk to me and Obi. Come and talk to somebody that will be honest and open and truthful with you. Because Obi, I don't want to throw you under the bus, but guess what? You've screwed it up too. And yet you've also experienced now what it means to live inside of God's beautiful boundaries. And is it different?

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Wow, night and day. And I've shared with you guys, you know, because of the the trauma that happened to me when I was eight years old, you know, my view on sex, my view on relationships between male and female was skewed, you know, and and and I and that's something that I struggled with even after the Lord found me. And there was always, always shame and regret and frustration and anger and sadness and all of these things that, you know, that are not to be associated with a relationship between a man and a woman. And it wasn't until I married my wife that I began to truly, for the first time in my entire life, to experience sex the way God had intended for it to be. A relationship between a man and a woman that was not poisoned, that was, you know, that was not harmful to my soul.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

And who would have thought that radical redemption goes beyond just you personally? But radical redemption might be the experience of a beautiful relationship with another human being that God created for you to serve and for you to compliment and to be complimented by them. That's amazing. So the experience that in those relationships is a huge aspect of radical redemption, that it's not just the radical redemption that I've received personally, but the radical redemption then that our relationships receive with one another.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

Yeah, and community, that part we keep going back to, we keep going back to that. You know, it's not an I think. It never has been, and never it just won't. Um, and and Henry uh nowin says community is first of all a Quality of the heart, it grows from the spiritual knowledge that we are alive, not for ourselves, but for one another.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Yeah. All right. When you talk about meaning and purpose and fulfillment in life, one of the first things that we come to when we're talking about whole life health and wellness is the reality that God created us with the meaning, purpose, and fulfillment of being in service to one another. But yet we are sold every day, over a thousand times a day, that this entire life is about me getting the most out of it and out of others that I can.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

And it's losing one of the most beautiful aspects of the reality in the way that we in the way that we were created is that when we pour out ourselves to someone else, we're actually becoming more of who God intended us to be. Now, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy being served by your spouse or your children or your friends. Of course, we're supposed to be grateful for those things. But the deeper idea of meaning, purpose, and fulfillment in life begins with our service to one another.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

Yeah, and again, and we go back to this. I don't know, guys, if you remember the series that we did on Yada, which is to know uh and to be known, the original relational health and wellness, um, that started all the way back in Genesis one and two.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Which is really beautiful because in Hebrew the word yada has both sides, to know and to be known, which is actually, if you didn't know the the word to know in Hebrew was relational and not intellectual. Now, if we say, hey, Obi, do you know? Uh we immediately think, right? Listen to this. We immediately think about what we know in our brain. But in Hebrew, it was uh, do you know this person and are you known by them? And now it's about information and data. Do you know? Well, yeah, well, hold on, let me grab my phone. I'll know it in two seconds. That's not knowing, you know, that's just information and data dump. And and we and we've taken away from the relational world into just the informational world.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Yeah, you know, and I think Andy, and again, I want to tell you guys that I'm I'm I'm a big I love technology, uh, but social media has given people a false sense of knowing somebody. You have the informational, the information about you can go on their profile. You can go on my LinkedIn profile and find out all kinds of stuff about you. You can go to my Facebook and find all kinds of things about me, but that is just to know informational uh the data about who I am and not actually know me, know my heart, know what I'm about, know what I pursue, know what I deeply care about. Um, and that's a big difference. And I think that gives, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

I love that now in our divisive world of being on you're supposed to be on one side or the other, and whatever side you're on, you hate the other side, right? Because they don't, you know, believe or thinking the same things that you do. And you ask somebody today, right? Like, well, why do you think that about him? Do you know him? Have you ever met him? Well, no. But but I know he's I know this person's bad. I know it. Well, how do you know? Have you ever met her? Well, no, no, I've never met him. Oh, so you really don't know. You know, my mom gets so frustrated with me because she comes from, you know, a generation older, and and uh she falls into the habit of of trusting people that she believes in, and then uh sometimes parroting what she hears. And I'm like, Well, how do you know that? Have you, you know, do you have you ever met this person? Have you ever called them up? Well, no, but I know. And I'm like, Mom, come on.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Yeah. Sometimes you can tell the the deer in the headlights look when you're like, Why do you why do you think that?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

And then uh But we do that in closer relationships. We do that with people that are in our workplaces that we've never actually sat down and spent time with, but we've heard the office gossip and we know them.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Well, I know that you know, or try this one, get ready, guys. Church. We do this with the people that we've never actually sat down with and had a conversation with or a coffee with in our church. Uh, but we've heard the church gossip out in the parking lot and we know them, you know. And I've actually heard people say that about me as a pastor who have never caught come and talked to me as their pastor or whatever, but they know what kind of pastor I am. I'm like, but wait, we've never sat down and had a cup of coffee. How do you know I was gonna act that way with you? Oh, well, I was I was told. I was well, um, who are you told by? Well, I can't tell you. Oh, okay, this is awesome. Yeah, go ahead, Dave.

SPEAKER_05 26:32

I uh I mean, just as an example, I was like when I first met you at baseball, I was like, there's no way this guy is this nice. There's just no way. He's so happy and nice all the time. I can't believe it. And then I was like, all right, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a shot because I learned a lesson a few years back in business with a guy that came from Chicago that I at first I didn't care for. And so I told some business people, I was like, you know, I don't really know if I would give him time to do that. And it turned out after I talked to him a while, I had to take it back and give it to people. So I went, don't prejudge, you're nothing special, Dave. And let's just see what happens and get to know him. And I'm like, wow, this guy actually is really nice. This is kind of crazy.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

And that is the radical redemption that Jesus can work in a guy's life who used to be a real jerk. So you know, I I used to be a real jerk, and now I'm a pretty nice guy. Don't talk to Jen about who I want to be.

SPEAKER_05 27:33

It's crazy. It's crazy how those preconceived no sticks to do that. The other thing I was gonna say is the other day I was walking and this person was out front of their yard and they didn't look very happy, and they had a sign that said, hate doesn't live here. So I said, Hey, I said, you know, how are you doing? Have a, you know, hope you're having a great day. And uh, isn't America great? And he looked at me and goes, for part of the country. And I went, What happened to the hate doesn't have a home here? And he just stared at me, stared at the sign, and he didn't respond. And I just went on my way because it was uh hate doesn't have a home here if you believe what I believe. And that's so that's so hard because I have a few friends that are on the left that I can talk to all day long about things and we don't agree on everything, but we're still friends. And me and a couple other friends have a few that you can't even talk about. We can't, I mean, even my brother and sister, I can't even bring up politics because it gets so ugly that I'm just like, I'm not gonna go there. It's not worth it.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Right. And and and we make decisions on who we might want to know and who we definitely know we don't want to know based on these preconceived judgments and stereotypes, and what side of the political arena do you sit on, and uh instead of actually getting to know somebody, which Obi, here's the biggest problem with Yada is that back in the Hebrew world, okay, when this world word was relational and not informational and data dump based, is Yadah took time. Yada was it was a patient relationship of knowing and getting to be known, right? And I I just don't I don't have time for that anymore, is the statement. Well, I don't have time for that, you know. So it's easier to take the social media snippet of someone and say, well, now I know them, because that's how all of our knowing is now. It's all data dump that I can do at my fingertips, uh, in my, you know, 10 seconds that I want to know it, and then move on. But true yada, true knowing and being known takes time. Yeah, it takes patience, it takes understanding, it takes communication.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Well, I want to remind everybody about the four loves, because we talked about that in in regards to yada. Um, and if you guys remember, there were the four types of loves. There was agape, Jesus, uh, the sacrificial and unconditional binding and healing love. Um, then there was arrows.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

And and let's stop right there. Yeah, go ahead. Do you know Jesus and are you known by him? Because I think today in our our North American kind of Christian mindset is you're supposed to know Jesus, but be very careful about being known by him. And the question that I I will ask you guys is does Jesus know you?

unknown 30:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Or are you holding him at arm's length? You know him. Hey, I read the Bible, I go to church, I know who Jesus is, but are you known by him? You know, that sacrificial unconditional binding and healing sounds great, right up until you recognize that he knows the deep, dark places of your heart, he knows where that sacrificial unconditional binding and healing needs to take place, and that you're known by him in the worst places of your life, and not just the best, not the filtered person that you put on social media, but the one that actually is in desperate need of Jesus Christ. So to know Jesus, but to be known by him, right? Odi, it's both.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

Yeah. Yeah, uh actually, absolutely. Um same thing. Well, the well, the same thing, you know, it's the same thing with Eros, right? Uh the the our our marriage, uh the romantic, the passionate of the intimate. There's a storge family, nurturing, affectionate, empathetic, compassionate, and protective. And then the file, that's brother and sister, equality, support, and accountability. And as you were talking, you know, um, I I think, you know, there's there's times when we, you know, the yada applies only to maybe one or two of these, right? We allow, I mean, yeah, we we're we go all in with the marriage, but not with not with Jesus. Because again, like you said, he he knows all the deep corners of our lives, or or or our brothers, right? Because we're men and we, you know, we're not we're not allowed to be open, honest, and vulnerable with one another.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Or down each and every one of this, I say, I know, I know Jesus, I know my wife, I know my children, I know who my brothers are. But ask the question, what would they say about you? Are you known by them? Right? One of the most beautiful things about being known by Jesus and being known by God is to be able to boldly claim and declare, God says everything about me that he says about his son because he sees me through Jesus' eyes. That's how God knows me. Yeah, that's an amazing thing. Well, what does your wife say about you? How does your wife know you? Have you asked that lately? That might not be a bad date question. You know, go out on a date and say, hey, what do you think of me? What do you know of me? What would you tell others of me? You know, ask your child that. I've done that with Sam before he went off to college. It's eye-opening, it's it's good and it has its painful moments. Here's what I think of you, Dad. And there was a lot of love involved, a lot of good things that I wanted to hear. But hey, you're also, hey, you know, you're quick-tempered. You know, you're a perfectionist, dad. You expect us to get it right on the first try. You know, you don't give us a whole lot of grace when we don't do it your way. I mean, I learned these things from my son's perspective, right? And then I asked Jen about it. She goes, Oh, yeah, that's how you are. And I'm like, you guys gotta help me out with that a little bit more. Where they know, you know, so uh quick-tempered, I'm very direct and say what I mean, sometimes without thinking about their feelings. And then I expect everybody to do it right the first time, and I expect them to do it the way that I would do it. And if they don't, I think it's wrong. Well, that these are actually good things to learn about yourself from someone else who knows you, and I'm known by them. So, anyway, and and this is great about brothers, you know, but this is where we don't go deep enough in the file aspect. Oh, be as like, oh yeah, I know the guys on the MLC. Okay, well, are you known by them?

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Well, and you know, and then and there's a reason why, Andy, you know, it it really did. It's it it it fractured at the fall, right? So, what we have here, you know, there's the relationships between God and humans, between humans and humans, between humans and creation, between humans and themselves, was broken during the fall. So you had a perfect relationship between God the Father and Adam and Eve, and they broke that.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

So all those yadas were broken. All of them. And you know, the one at the bottom is one we don't think about enough ourselves that the relationship that we have our with ourselves. Uh I know who I am and I'm known by myself. It believe it or not, that relationship was fractured and splintered, and we don't even know who we are sometimes. Yeah. So struggle with it.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so you know, that's why uh the Ten Commandments were kind of gave given to us as a framework for this brokenness, right? And all of a sudden now we have the the design, God's design for healthy relationships, which was the horamdeo between God, us and God, the vertical righteousness. Uh, and then the that that in turn affects our horamundo, the you know, the this horizontal righteousness to that goes out towards the world.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yep, that we have with one another. And a lot of people don't see the Ten Commandments uh in the way that God designed it. This clearly, Obi, is that the first three are about our relationship with God. This is this is the way he intended things to be, but they were broken. And now he's given us not these commandments that we have to do to be righteous with God, but what he's given us is the reality of the design that he created in the relationship that he wanted to have with us and how to now carry that on in the broken world. And then four through ten, the same, hey, this is the way you were supposed to be with one another, but that broke. So this is the way you're supposed to be. You know, I'm giving you the original creative design once again now for you to live out in the midst of the brokenness. Yeah, it's just really cool.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

Well, and then Jesus comes along, you know, and then he uh in Matthew 22, 37 to 20, there's something transformational um that happens when he speaks this the truth in Christ, and he says, Jesus replied, Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. So um, and then he says, and the second is like it love your neighbor as yourself. And then he says, All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

I like it. He just summarizes the ten commandments down to two love God and love your neighbor, right? Uh, and these are these are also supposed to be wrapped up in the Hebrew understanding. Uh, when Jewish people of the first century would have heard Jesus say that and summarize the commandments down to this, their minds would have also been intentionally thinking through Yadah. So when it says love the Lord your God, that would be to know God and be known by God, right? Love your neighbor. That would be to know your neighbor and be known by your neighbor. They're just their mindset would have thought through it that way, whereas ours is now, oh, what do I need to do to love God? What do I need to do to love my neighbor? And now we live in a world of I have to do these things versus I need to be in these healthy relationships. See what I'm saying? It's a little different.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

It is. It is. So all of that you know, culminates in really what we talked about in the reality for our need for community. But then there's also um the need for family relationships. Uh, if you remember, there were four. We were in with the family relationships, we're building trustworthy intimacy and practicing deep connections and marriage and parenting, healthy sexual intimacy, dating and mentoring.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Ah, that's a lot there for family relationships. And the dating doesn't stop after marriage, by the way. I don't know, but uh, you know, talk to your wife about that. Would you like to still date? Uh, she's probably gonna say yes. So the dating, you know, is an aspect of the knowing and and and being known. Uh, and are we taking time out specifically with our spouses to continue to date them after marriage so that we can continue to know them and continue to be known by them? So, but here's some great verses, Obi, about uh healthy family relationships.

SPEAKER_03 38:37

Yeah, Ephesians 5, 22, 23 says, Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

You know, so you have this again, this reciprocity, this mutuality, this complementary nature in which God created marriage to work, right? Which is a giving of one another to the other. And yada happens not only, you say, to know and to be known, but yada begins once again with service to the other. And I will just say our world teaches us today, you marry somebody that you think you're gonna get a lot out of. That's the worldly view. I'm gonna marry somebody I think I'm gonna get what I want out of her, versus I'm gonna marry somebody that I can't wait to pour everything I have into, you know, serve, give all of myself to.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

Well, then um Ephesians 6, 1 through 4 says, Children, away your parents and the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and a mother, which is a first commandment with a promise, so that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on earth. Fathers, do not exasperate your children, instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Yeah, and that was that aspect of asking Sam a couple of things before he went off to college, is you know, hey dad, you do a great job. Here's the things about you that I know that I love, but also you exasperate me sometimes. And those are the things as a father you don't want to hear, but you need to know. Here's the way that you wear me and mom out. Oh. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 40:16

So uh that was family relationships, but there's also church relationships confronting the reality of sin and brokenness and engaging in the impact of redemption through doing life together in Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

I think we forget that church is filled with sinful people. We think all of us, you know, the the worldly view is of church is that oh, it's filled with all the people that have figured it out, gotten it right, and are are doing it the right way, versus I walked into a three-ring circus full of clowns. That's the way you ought to walk into church. I just walk into a three-ring circus full of a bunch of clowns, and by the way, I'm one of them.

SPEAKER_04 40:55

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Uh well, Acts 242-47 says, and they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers, and awe came up on every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles, and all who believed were together uh and had all things in common.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

And what I what I love about that one, Obi, is that you know, church, the the community in Christ actually brings us together to care about now one another, and care about those other clowns that are sitting there next to me, and wanting to get to know them and wanting them to get to know me and actually build those relationships with one another, all who believed were together and had all things in common. There's this unity that should be a uh a beauty that happens within the church community or within this community on Friday mornings in the MLC. There should be a beauty to it that the world's like, what is it with you guys that you actually care about one another this way and you serve one another this way? Why are y'all doing that? And it opens up the opportunity then to say who we are and whose we are.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

Yeah. Well, and and we've seen that played out of the MLC many times, many, many times. Uh both within one another and bow and and also with the MLC being open-handed with our resources to help other people that are in need, especially our own. Um, it continues saying that they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all and any as any had need. Day by day they went to the temple together and broke bread in their homes, sharing their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favored with all the people, and the Lord added to their number day by day, those who were being saved.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

And you see this great example of what life together is supposed to look like. It's supposed to be this yada where we're doing things with one another, where I get to know you and you get to know me.

unknown 42:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

You know, so and hopefully that's what we're that's what we're trying to put together with Friday mornings, happy hours, and the retreats is these opportunities for greater yada between men.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

Yeah. Well, that's church relationships, Andy. Um, but you know, there's also work relationships. A lot of people don't like to talk about this one. Um, building our healthy teams capable of addressing and coffee resolution, diversity and inclusion, integrity issues.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Well, you mean the Bible talks about diversity and inclusion? Yeah, but probably in a little different way than the world does.

SPEAKER_03 43:27

Um, integrity issues and career change. Uh and we got these verses here out of Ephesians that are relevant to this. Slaves obey your earthly masters with respect and fear and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Um, obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each and one for whatever good they they do, whether they are a slave or

SPEAKER_01 44:00

They are free. Yeah. And it's like the the sayings that uh my dad passed down to me that I passed down to Sam is uh always do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, especially when nobody's watching. But then be mindful of the fact that people are watching. Yeah. But do the right thing when nobody's watching, but also remember people are watching, and it can be an example also. And this is the the kind of work relationships that we can have with one another, where we're not just trying to have a job to make money to provide for our family, which is a good thing and a blessing, but also to impact the lives of others by showing Christ-likeness in the way that we carry it out.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Yeah. Um, it continues, and masters treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he's he who is both their master and yours is in heaven, and there's no favoritism with him.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

You know, I like that set of verses because it tells employees how to act with their bosses, but it also tells bosses how they should act with their employees. Yeah, you know, so yeah, yeah. The graciousness that comes with that. Yeah. Well, that's work.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

There's also neighbor relationships.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Yeah, this is the last one, guys. Hang in there for two more seconds. We're almost done.

SPEAKER_03 45:11

Learning how to be a good neighbor in the world and how to have healthy relationships with those who disagree with us as well as those with whom we agree.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

You know, and I think this is a big one because this is really what's at the heart of uh the Pharisee that asks Jesus, who's my neighbor? Yeah. And Jesus, you know, obviously tells the story of the Good Samaritan, what it means to be a good neighbor versus asking, Who is my neighbor? Like, go be a good neighbor. But the whole one of the things that we miss, especially in our culture today, Obi, is inside the story of the Good Samaritan is to have relationships with those who disagree with us or uh, you know, who we're not supposed to have relationships with. Yes, you are, as well as with those who think like me, act like me, talk like me. Yeah. You know, but we've forgotten that one in the world today. So the Good Samaritan is really about me doing good things to people who think like me, act like me, talk like me. You know, not not I'm not supposed to go be a good Samaritan to somebody I disagree with or somebody that's on the other side of an issue. Yeah. I know, I know. By the way, I'm I'm I'm just, you know, I'm just awesome at all these things, by the way. I could tell the mirror that scripture holds up, you're like, oh yeah, that's I'm not doing good at that one.

SPEAKER_03 46:29

Just checking through there and be like, you know, that doesn't really apply to me today. Today's.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

Oh, but it brings back the whole desperate need for radical redemption because I'm like, yeah, I'm not actually, I'm not living out the good Samaritan thing right now.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Uh Ephesians 4 29 uh says, Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Yeah, that's a that's a big one.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other just as in Christ's God forgave you. Um, and then Ephesians 5, 2 says, Follow God's example, therefore, as dearly beloved children, and walk in the way of love just as Christ's love does, and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

You know, I I think this is the set of verses where we got the great song, What the World Needs Now is love, sweet love. I mean, I think that's actually the the text behind where that song was written from is being kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other. We're struggling with that in the world today. So let's be men that actually are are asking for God to fill us with the love of Christ to live that out in front of others.

SPEAKER_03 47:50

Yeah.

unknown 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 47:53

Well, guys, thank you for hanging on. I know we went a little bit over, but we definitely didn't want to gloss over any of this stuff because it's really important. Um, and and really uh I hope that it's transformative for all of us. And that's always our prayer. I'm gonna close this out, and you're welcome to stay for the after party. Lord, we just thank you so much for loving us despite us. Thank you for your word. Thank you for each and every one that's here, not by accident, but but but because you orchestrated their steps to be here. And I pray that each person that's here, with me included, um, are people that don't just hear your words or read your words, but that are actually transformed by the power of the gospel. I ask you that you saturate every aspect of our lives and all our relationships, that you allow us to know and to be known. Um, that you allow us to not just know about you, but to know your heart and for you to know our heart. Um, use each and every one of us. I ask you that you allow us to continue being heralds of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and you will give us opportunity to invite people so that they too may know you. We love you, and it's in your name we pray.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Amen. Thanks for joining and listening. We hope that you were truly blessed. Now you can join the live call every Friday morning at 7 a.m. Central Standard Time, and please bring a friend. And to learn more about the MLC, visit our website at themlc.life. That's the MLC. Have a great day.